2013 Why I'm not buying FMH13

[Ceirdiff]

Wall of text alert!

Yeah, I know this might seem a bit out of place on an FMH fansite, so I'll prefix this by saying that I love the game, but won't be buying the new version of it. Hope it's not too controversial.

I've bought all of the FMH's on handheld devices since they were released on iOS (that is: FMHi10, FMHi11, FMHAndroid12). Whilst I have to agree that they have been consistently been getting better with each version, much like the PC version of the game, I don't think that getting the new version will do it for me.

Personally I've grown cynical of the franchise method of selling - selling a touched up rebranded version of the same game year on year doesn't make sense to me - short term I can see how it makes commercial sense, but I fear that this is at the expense of, for lack of a better word, exploiting consumers. Big game houses use their notoriety/monopoly in order to trap consumers into constantly buying their games year on year. If you want the latest and greatest in touched up features you are forced to pay them the high price of a new game when in reality it's mostly small improvements worth maybe £5 as opposed to £30.

If you say that game companies won't make a loss on releasing a new game sold at £30, then these touched up versions are going to be making a fortune, it is an awful lot easier for them to improve football manager than for them to completely reprogram it from scratch. Either way, indie games such as minecraft aren't required to go down this route in order to make a profit. Companies like 2D Boy focus more on expanding into new platforms than their franchise, Zachtronics are producing truckloads of new games - you get my point.

I know that it's only a small team working on FMHi, but it's also a highly experienced team, and shoving in loads of new features in a single year shouldn't be beyond them. Before you point out that lack of new features makes the game more fun, you must remember that every few years then there is typically a new big feature - why can't this time be reduced down to every year?

I suppose that I didn't really mind so much buying into the franchise, it certainly made me grumpier than paying them a (for example) cut back £2 instead of £7 for the extra polish, but unfortunately the part that tipped me over the edge was the addition of in-app-purchases.

I've already voiced my opinions on in-app-purchases on another thread but I'll repeat them here: personally I think they are great and definitely intend to use them in my own games in order to achieve high-end content, but they should only serve as a shortcut - the content should always be accessible to those who don't pay, even if it takes much longer (for example, Froggy Jump). On a high-end product such as FMH, which has a very high price in comparison to other games it feels unacceptable to include them at all though. On £1 games then their inclusion is already debatable, when I purchase a game for a front-up fee I expect access to all of the content, instead they should be used in "freemium" games where the money gained from in-app-purchases subsidises a loss-leader in having no front-up costs.

Maybe I'll buy 2014 or 2015 when I know there'll be a significant update...

Anyone agree with me then? I'll happily discuss my views if it doesn't lead to my blood pressure going up.

[Jayze]

I agree 100%

[RAC]

I'm definetly not getting the PSP version and will only get the iOS game when it is being sold for £3.

[Dr.Football1]

Agree ! Post that on SI forums mate

[Ashez]

I don't mind the IOS game since it aint a bad price but the PSP game took the piss this year but i'm hopefull it wont this year but at the end of the day reguardless of the price i know i'll get my moneys worth while entertaining you lot.

[pdmac8]

I agree with everything you say but unfortunately companies understand the consumers need to have the latest version of everything.

This is illustrated in no better way than the mass purchasing & upgrading to the S versions of the iPhone, a far inferior upgrade to an already working product that makes Apple billions in a matter of days.

All the while that there are mugs like me and the others out there then these games will continue to sell year on year.

Or we could all just download the FMHvibe 2012/2013 update & tell IS we won't pay their inflated prices?

[anfieldsquirrel]

I agree with everything you say but unfortunately companies understand the consumers need to have the latest version of everything.

This is illustrated in no better way than the mass purchasing & upgrading to the S versions of the iPhone, a far inferior upgrade to an already working product that makes Apple billions in a matter of days.

All the while that there are mugs like me and the others out there then these games will continue to sell year on year.

Or we could all just download the FMHvibe 2012/2013 update & tell IS we won't pay their inflated prices?

That could lead to the game being cancelled. If they no longer have it in production then what will we do?

[Ashez]

Thats a stupid idea lol, and i think its why you can't use txt changes on IOS. The PSP game was a joke i agree but its still a massively enjoyable game but to complain about IOS/Android is beyond stupid imo, its 7 quid ffs hardly breaking the bank even my brother saves up to buy it and he's only 8 and he enjoys every second and every penny spent.

[anfieldsquirrel]

7quid is a bloody bargain! I get my money's worth every save i play let Alone all year

[RAC]

It is cheap but most features don't interest me. Also I couldn't care about transfer updates as it doesn't make that much of a difference if the majority of my saves are 10+ seasons. Plus the vibe update hasn't been good since 2010.

[Ceirdiff]

I won't post it on the SIGames forum, I feel that it would be a bit more troublesome there than even here, I don't want to cause trouble.

It might be cheap, but compared to other apps it is very much a 'premium' product. For a premium product then more updates are generally expected than the addition of a few challenges, a nicer theme and a database update. It very much feels like consumers are getting ripped off.

SIGames won't stop selling Football Manager, they only sell the one franchise. If they do though, hopefully that would encourage them to not just rely on consumers buying into franchises in future.

Thanks for the responses, keep them coming!

[Dec]

I believe it is the same with most franchises that come out every year now a days. I don't agree with it at all but it is just the way it works, though I know Marc does try really hard and it is the easiest way to prevent bugs.

[Jayze]

I've said it before, but can anyone justify the difference in prices between PSP and Ipod/Pad etc etc. I've never really understood why the gap is so big, and then why it's not the other way round!

[anfieldsquirrel]

I think it's understandable that PSP is more expensive because they have to put all the data on to a disk and make cases and release it into circulation worldwide. But the price is very high for PSP.

[Dec]

It is just the platform. Simply put the PSP's norm price is around that so that is what FMH prices the game around.

[Jens]

But they ignore it the other way around? Prices for apps usually wallow around 2-3 euros around here, yet FMH costs 10.

[Dec]

I am not saying there are not other reasons but there are apps that are more expensive than FMH.

[pdmac8]

M sorry Dec, you are right that no repeat purchases means no game.

I personally will never stop buying it every season & that's on PSP, the game for £7 on iOS is an absolute bargain.

I am sure that deep down, the reason we post on here is that we love footy FMH so we will all be buying it! Won't we?

[lampard80]

I know this is a bit old - but I believe that £7 isn't that much money for the IOS version - if you consider they put a lot of effort into the game, all year round, and they do make improvements year on year. Also, people spend £50 on video games these days, so £7 is very cheap.

I think they do a great job at FMH, and I know I will certainly be getting it the day it is released - and am eager to know when that is.

#ThanksMarcandhisteam

[Ceirdiff]

Eww, hashtag in forum post #Gross

£7 is cheap for a game, yes, for an iOS/Android game it's expensive. That is my point. They are aiming this game at the premium end of iOS and Android markets and as such they should not include DLC in it. In fact, DLC in even £0.59 apps feels wrong. The developers should make a choice between freemium or premium and not go half and half because it leaves a sour taste in my (and other consumers) mouth.

Furthermore, being given a product that isn't as good as the iOS one, despite paying the same amount is a bit of a kick in the teeth...

[JoePhoenix]

Doesn't matter how much it is or how much I moan at how bad it is, I still enjoy it every year and that's what matters

[rickybrick]

maybe you guys should just download the ISO from websites

[zelatansyedmovic]

That's an idea but Piracy is the main thing.. What if everyone downloaded the game from the website, no one will actually buy from the company.. The company will lose lots of money on production and they will not regain back the money they spend on the company, and they might cancelled the future versions of the game in the future..

[Ashez]

maybe you guys should just download the ISO from websites

No we shouldn't since its breaking the law and damaging the game we love. Please don't mention this subject again because its against the rules of the site.

[Ceirdiff]

It's an APK, not an ISO, an ISO is for operating systems ie Linux/Haiku

And no, one person still has to buy it in the first place, so some people will still buy it with piracy...

Eitherway, I will not pirate, nor condone it (I absolutely despise it tbh), and pirating the game just completely nullifies my point - the reason I'm not getting it is I don't believe the new version has enough new features, so why would I then go and play it anyway?...

[Ashez]

ISO is a downloaded PSP game i believe .

[Ceirdiff]

Upon further searching it appears that an ISO is the format used to right data to an optical disk (e.g. CD ROM); that would explain why I thought it was used for operating systems as it is the ISO you install from -- you normally install from CD and therefore memory sticks will use the same format for consistency.

[Marc Vaughan]

Its entirely up to every individual to decide if the game is worth purchasing or not really - I sincerely do my best to evolve and improve it each year ... but ultimately its you lot who decide whether the handheld series should continue or not by purchasing it.

The new mobile versions will continue to improve and evolve this year - there are quite a few surprises waiting for people in that regard, unfortunately I'm not allowed to mention them at present (shouldn't be too much longer now).

[Macflyer]

Its entirely up to every individual to decide if the game is worth purchasing or not really - I sincerely do my best to evolve and improve it each year ... but ultimately its you lot who decide whether the handheld series should continue or not by purchasing it.

The new mobile versions will continue to improve and evolve this year - there are quite a few surprises waiting for people in that regard, unfortunately I'm not allowed to mention them at present (shouldn't be too much longer now).

I really appreciate the fact that there is FMH and you must be one of the nicest chaps in computer games development.

I will never stop buying FMH or FM PC since I always get some good entertainment from them, be it at home or on the plane.

I regard FMH PSP 11 as the best FMH on any handheld. It most likely has to do with screen size, layout, player instructions and how the game flows. I know, the code is almost the same, but yeah....

I had a remarkable game going on there which was finally ruined by a corrupted save game file.

And that is what has been missing from the iOS version, same code or not. Something remarkable going on, something rewarding. It must have to do with the layout. I would study stats far longer. On iOS I hardly look at them. Then, Player Instructions gave at least the sense of some more influence on the match engine. I haven't looked not even once at Player Roles, even if they are in theory more realistic.

I guess, what would even be equally important than another one or two killer features (updated ME, tactics creator), if you used the RAM available on iOS/Android to create more atmosphere through longer/more varied text messages/news items. Life at and around the club still feels static. This is a text based game after all and through more events (more interaction?) things could become more interesting.

What I always loved about the Beautiful Games Studio's CM franchise was how they handled player interaction (player talks) for the PC game. This was less sophisticated than what SI is doing with FM, but it was effective, interesting, and it gave some sense of relationship. In FMH there is no relationship whatsoever created. Yes, there is some basic interaction but is it effective? I know, players can have their favorite other players and even personnel I think, but one has to really see how CM 06, 07, 08 and 10 did it to appreciate it.

Why not having the board members a say in the media after a brilliant victory or an embarrassing loss?

Before FM 09 PC, media was handled in a subtle but interesting way of fielding some questions once in a while and even engaging in mind games if I desired to. I really would love to see this in FMH.

Excuse my complicated and over long elaboration, my point is that FMH doesn't need to have the scope of a modern PC game to be fun or worthwhile. But it should become more enjoyable (believable) in the way it tries to create a setting, a background for an alternate life as a football manager. FM PC (as well as BGS CM) have done this since I started playing them in 2006. If you look at FM 2006, it didn't have any fancy team talk, press talks, and what not, but it used text descriptions in a lovely way. And then, people were hooked trying to exploit the ME

Marc, I know you love the game. I love it, too. Rewrite the news items. Add some more events. Interaction. Mind games. Player talks. Have me spend all my commute on designing a tactics from scratch. Polish text commentary. Vary it. You distilled very well the essence of the FM franchise into something portable. Now, add the pepper and spice.

[Ceirdiff]

Its entirely up to every individual to decide if the game is worth purchasing or not really - I sincerely do my best to evolve and improve it each year ... but ultimately its you lot who decide whether the handheld series should continue or not by purchasing it.

The new mobile versions will continue to improve and evolve this year - there are quite a few surprises waiting for people in that regard, unfortunately I'm not allowed to mention them at present (shouldn't be too much longer now).

I know that you do your best and ultimately a lot of it will be corporate decisions/pressures; and as macflyer said you are one of the nicest devs that I've come across, certainly one of the very few outside FOSS games to interact with the community, however, I will be waiting until at least FM13 before buying a new version in order to get the cumulative improvements from two years work.