Series Improving Penalty Shootouts

[Ashez]

Improving Penalty Shootouts

 

Penalty shootouts are the real drama of football where one team is victorious and the other suffers one of the hardest fates in football. In game I feel this is an area that is somewhat lacking, don't get me wrong they are incredibly intense but all we do as the manager is sit back and bite our finger nails as we watch the lottery take place. With that in mind I'll be discussing some ideas in which I feel the game could make penalties more immersive and involving for us, the players. 

 

The Coin Toss

 

Any advantage in a penalty shootout is a massive one and who wins the coin toss can be a game changer. The winner of the coin toss has to decide which end the penalties will take place (in front of which set of fans) while also which team kicks first. I feel this should be implemented in game as it would make the experience more involving and add more pressure to the build up. The game could implement it in a number of ways ranging from a menu system or even a coin tossing mini game, just the option of being able to select heads or tails before a coin toss would add to the drama, as would having to deal with losing the toss or if you won having to decide how to take advantage of the situation. 

 

Penalty Training

 

Before any game where penalties have a likelihood of appearing players will practice them yet this isn't shown in game. We'll assume the keeper and attacking training does implement some kind of penalty training but even in that case half your side will not be practicing them. Day to day your central defender will likely not need to practice taking a spot kick but before a knock out game it's always wise to be prepared and I'd personally like the option to turn on a penalty training feature a week or two before the fixture. How many shootouts have you lost due to an non attacker missing his kick? When that happens I always feel cheated as while it's completely luck based it's frustrating to think we have no way of improving our players before hand. 

 

A Better Indicator

 

The current indicators in game for how good your players are at penalties is rather limited with only specific attackers giving you any real information. Penalties are luck based but we're selecting our takers blind once our attackers have taken their kicks as we have no reliable information on how good a player is. In my opinion every player on the game should have a set piece page which shows how good a player is at taking penalties and free kicks, this information would result in us making informed decisions instead of plucking names out of a hat. While this might not be useful for the first four or five penalties for your side it could make the difference between winning the Champions League or going home in tears. The idea could also be expanded to give information on what sort of penalties your players take and what style your goalkeeper has. For example is your keeper the dancing or pointing sort or does he try and make the opposition nervous by wasting time? All these tactics are important in a real life shootout but ignored in game. 

 

The FIFA Style

 

This idea is a bit more out there but it would offer complete control and really involve you as the manager. In the FIFA series in a shootout you decide which way you shoot and which way your keeper will dive. In this idea you'd have a screen similar to the intensive training one and the pull down options would be left, right centre. This sort of feature would heavily involve us as managers and would come with consequences as a defeat would fall on our shoulders but so would the sweet taste of victory. I would say this idea should be ruled out completely as such things should be controlled by the players stats but with us soon to have control over passing directions in FMM 2016 it seems like it fits the game more than you'd first think. 

 

Penalty Statistics

 

If the idea above or one similar is implemented it would open the way for more depth in the statistics of the game, for example it could record a players preferred direction, score/miss ratio, keepers favoured diving side and so on. This sort of information is studied before every game in real life yet is ignored in game. A keeper will always study certain players before a game in case a penalty is awarded and such information could be vital in game. I've always worried about FMH being bogged down but this sort of idea is perfect as you can edit your keeper and penalty takers approach before each game in case a penalty is given or you can chance your luck. In the penalties bigger brother the shootout this sort of information will help you make an informed decision on your first five takers while also giving you the information needed if you want to sub someone on to take one. It would also add an element of mind games to the situation as a player could always mix it up and go another way or ignore your judgement completely, which could bring the players stats like decision making and ego into the equation. If a player misses ignoring your advice how do you react? The same applies if the opposition keeper saves your strikers shot going your suggested direction however, it really would enhance the drama. 

 

That's my views on how the shootout experience could be improved but what do you think? Make sure you leave your views and opinions in the comments, thank you for viewing.

 

 

[UKFootballScore]

all of this would be quite in depth for something so small and rarely seen though

[Ashez]

It shouldn't be seen as small though, IMO a shootout is one of the most intense things to happen in football, regardless if you support a team involved or not. 

[Dec]

Nice article, I think a lot of this can be probably done with other features. For example Penalty training would be good if we can choose pre-match training such as attacking movement, defensive positioning, set pieces etc..., penalty statistics would be good but I would love to see more general statistics on player profiles such as shots on target, passes per game and % completed etc...

 

I don't really agree with FIFA style penalties, you wouldn't see a manager shout to a goalkeeper where to dive.

[Ashez]

I would also like more stats like the ones you mentioned.

True a manager wouldn't shout out instructions during the shootout, however before hand the GK coach will advise the keeper and strikers before the game. I would see it as something you set before the game or in a break of play (like before the shootout), not so much in play as FIFA is. What you decide sticks once the shoot out starts etc. 

[Dec]

I reckon that type of thing happens in the background though, then the goalkeeper selects a side.

[billy2shots]

I play using the original engine with very fast commentary only.

I don't even get a running scoreline so half the time the winner of the shootout is a complete surprise to me. I have to study the text hard to see if anyone misses but if I am distracted for any reason they i have to wait for the end of the shoot out.

Early patches of FMH15 showed real time score and I can't remember when this stopped.

 

[Ashez]

I reckon that type of thing happens in the background though, then the goalkeeper selects a side.

Ideally it would be stuff we could access via a goalkeeping coach, what coaches could and should be is a different matter though. 

@billy2shots Very good point, it slipped my mind that they're somewhat broken on the OME. I did get in the habit of switching to pitch view for pens though. 

[Dec]

Even if we tell a goalkeeper to go left as Eden Hazard 9 times out of 10 shoots there it doesn't mean he will listen.

[Ashez]

That's the point, you use the stats to make a decision but the player will decide. The point is to have an informed idea, not a guaranteed save/goal. 

History states he goes left so you have the choice of following that or chancing he changes it up with your selection. Then in the shootout the player will use his decisions, teamwork and whatever other stats to make his decisions. It would add a layer of trust/miss trust to the game. 

[Dec]

But this is Football Manager not Goalkeeping Coach Manager. Your Goalkeeping Coach will do this for you, the best thing for penalties would be before it starts you can pick the order they take them in.

[Ashez]

In that case scrap coaches as this is a management game, scrap training as this is a management game, scrap transfers as no manager makes transfers and scrap all financial aspects of the game as that's nothing to do with the manager. 

That point is daft and you know it, the game tosses two coins for the taker and keeper. If coaches take control of it does that mean on 2016 all this will be ignored unless you have a GK coach? No. It's not implemented at all, in the shame shocking way we still can't control set pieces which is a massive part of football. 

[Dec]

How many times have you seen a manager tell the goalkeeper where to dive? I haven't, it is always done by the coaches. 

Scrap Training - Managers lead training

Scrap Transfers- Managers Do this

Scrap Coaches - Didn't Klopp select a few of his coaches at Liverpool, managers choose these

Scrap Financial Aspects - This is designed in the game to allow you to sign players you want

 

The point isn't daft at all, I concur with this. It will always be controlled by a goalkeeping coach or assistant as if you are a manager you focus on the penalty takers and therefore should choose who should take the pens NOT which way the goalkeeper dives. I think choosing where your goalkeeper dives or telling him the stats is daft, it should be done in the background with the knowledge of this influencing where he dives. It doesn't have to be displayed or shown at all. As someone who wants the game to be fast how boring would this be and how slow would it make the game? I would say very! For something with little reward as it can get ignored you shouldn't have to be able to tell which way a goalkeeper dives. Watch any shootout and you will see it is presented to the goalkeeper by the assistant and done automatically. Therefore it should be in the background of the game. Whether the game currently tosses coins or not, that depends on the engine or you just presuming. EIther way there is room for improvement but it shouldn't be improved by giving user's control over something that they shouldn't be.

[Ashez]

Not all managers lead training, hardly any manager in world football has total transfer control, hence all the DOFs. 

Coaches in real life actually do something, they aren't just a steroid boost. This is my point, it would make coaches useful! It would be a reason to have them. They need a meaning to be worthwhile and part of the GKs coaches role is to study opposition pens with the keeper. Vibe will be bored of coaches after a month of release, no doubt in my mind, the way to make them interesting is to make them part of the game and to have access to what they control, just as the game lets us act as the board/DOF/committee or whatever else you want to call it to make signings 

Personally I'm not fussed how pens work, it's just a discussion piece with an out there idea :p. If it was me I'd be happy with the coin toss, added indicators and a historical record as its a pain trying to remember who's good or not, turns out Sturridge misses a lot from the spot.  

[Dec]

That is the thing, goalkeeper coaches should do it and should have an effect on this type of area. We shouldn't see it happening though, I would much rather the ability to pick who takes penalties with a confidence indicator and statistics to show how many they have missed. Be aware though training and transfers are done by managers dependent on clubs and they always have a say in it. It is very rare that a manager wouldn't have a say in a transfer.

[Ashez]

I know what you're saying but that makes coaches redundant, they have no use, need or reason to be added if they don't do anything. Is it going on in the background? Maybe but I don't believe it for a second. Anything "that happens in the background" is myth and speculation" which means nothing. 

The confidence meter however is a brilliant idea! Right there is why this discussion was worth while as you knocked a smashing and simple idea right out the park. 

This is why people should discuss things in posts like this. 

[Fish18ish]

How many times have you seen a manager tell the goalkeeper where to dive? I haven't, it is always done by the coaches. 

Scrap Training - Managers lead training

Scrap Transfers- Managers Do this

Scrap Coaches - Didn't Klopp select a few of his coaches at Liverpool, managers choose these

Scrap Financial Aspects - This is designed in the game to allow you to sign players you want

 

The point isn't daft at all, I concur with this. It will always be controlled by a goalkeeping coach or assistant as if you are a manager you focus on the penalty takers and therefore should choose who should take the pens NOT which way the goalkeeper dives. I think choosing where your goalkeeper dives or telling him the stats is daft, it should be done in the background with the knowledge of this influencing where he dives. It doesn't have to be displayed or shown at all. As someone who wants the game to be fast how boring would this be and how slow would it make the game? I would say very! For something with little reward as it can get ignored you shouldn't have to be able to tell which way a goalkeeper dives. Watch any shootout and you will see it is presented to the goalkeeper by the assistant and done automatically. Therefore it should be in the background of the game. Whether the game currently tosses coins or not, that depends on the engine or you just presuming. EIther way there is room for improvement but it shouldn't be improved by giving user's control over something that they shouldn't be.

actually, managers dont always lead training, its generally more of a foriegn thing (hence why managers are normally referred to as 'coaches' abroad). Managers such as Paul Lambert, an Fergie in his later years, tended to sit back and trust their coaches with training. Of course some managers, such as Chris Houghton *idiot* do have a big influence over training sessions, but this isn't the same for every manager out there. Ashez has abghood point, and whilst a 'Fifa style' command it on the spot system would be silly, suggesting a direction as part of a players training would make sense. The best, but not overly time consuming option, would be tongive goalkeeping and outfield coaches a penalty training, and advice stat, and perhaps you could tell your coach what to direction to advise, and the coaches' advice stat could determine how well they can transfer that information. Interesting article.

[Dec]

@Ashez Coaches improve everything in the background. Better coaches = Better growth, more consistent comments and better performances. That is the way I see it.

 

@Fish18ish Of course, I am not saying EVERY manager leads training but I am saying that it happens so removing that isn't a valid argument as my point was that no manager tells a goalkeeper where to dive, but on the other hand managers do lead training. I agree it isn't the best and as I mentioned pre-match training and selecting your penalty takers' order would be better than his suggestion.

[Ashez]

Which could have been achieved by boosting IT, apart from that it's just another screen with a famous name attached to it. Managers tell there coaches what to do, we'll let them hide in the back ground. 

I'm sure the dinner lady boost moral at training as well, why can't we appoint them? Or are they working away in background aswel  

[Dec]

I don't think you get it @Ashez, Just because it isn't obvious doesn't mean it is pointless. Appointing coaches helps you shape the direction of your club, the better you appoint the better your players grow at these attributes and also the better feedback you get when judging players. It doesn't give a training boost like IT, it makes your club have a philosophy and means they have an impact dependent on who you appoint - like players. If you have good players who are good then they will perform better than ones who are bad.

[Ashez]

Which is broken and the reason I don't like it, it'll be no different to wonder kids and regens in general where everyone uses the best. With players you can take risks but with coaches that secretly effect everything you'll only want to use the best if not you're limiting the entire club/team/save. 

The day of release maybe even before you'll post a list of the best options available and then the system is broken and pointless. It's no shock half the players used in challenges are found at the top of your PA lists. Sure people don't have to look at such lists but with all the ways to cheat the system out there (IGE) people will, especially with coaches as only the best will do when it effects everything.

Nothing there is new, you can have a philosophy on 2015 implemented by your playing style and signings. Adding a defensive coach into the mix doesn't make it a philosophy, maybe being able to only pass to the left will give me a left sided philosophy. 

[scass]

Personally, I don't like the penalty shootouts. They seem to happen more than in real life, and you feel the game has been taken out of your hands. I know that the degree to which it has is only a matter of degree than the ninety minutes, but still, there's some weird psychological thing...

 

Anyway...I think more sense of control over them would make it more fun. Doesn't have to be the way the keeper dives, but being able to choose the penalty takers before the shootout, rather than before the game, would be a help. Then if someone had a stinker, then you could leave them out of the order. 

Personally, I want to win or lose games by the choices I make in players and tactics, not by some narrative the game wants to follow.

 

As for the coaches debate - I originally thought coaches were a good idea, because of the unreliability of the assistant manager. Now I'm not so sure that it isn't going to be a millstone. If we can hire coaches we should be able to fire them as well, if they don't do a job we're happy with.

[Ashez]

You can edit the pen takers before the shootout if you edit it before the shootout starts. 

[FastFurious]

Great article - would love to see better stat indications of how good your players are at penalties (composure stat?) and more statistics kept is always welcome. On the other hand a coin toss or penalty training may unnecessarily stretch the length of the game out and disrupt the flow. 

As for the FIFA style - although I'd love to see something like this implemented, the problem again is how long would this make a game? maybe there could be an option to turn this on or off so that you get the tension of a pen shootout for the bigger games but still have the speed of a regular game for the others

[Ashez]

Valid points but a couple of menues doesn't take long, I'd rather click through something like that which influences the game than 15 odd ITN slides every ITN round. 

[hardikchawla6]

I think they should focus on improving the general penalties in normal time rather than the penalty shootout which I think is fine now anyways , there are a lot of things that should be improved such as the enhanced engine , transfer and contract systems , etc before this .