Tactics Pressing & Counter

[Ed]

Hi,

I saw a few tactics last year using both pressing & counter and there seem a few this year as well, but do these not contradict each other or is my understanding wrong?

Pressing - close down the opposition more (less time on the ball) and try and turn over possession as quickly as possible, i.e like Spurs & Man City

Counter - Sit back and wait for the ball to be turned over and with pace attack the opposition.  Bit like Chelsea this season.

Cheers

[BatiGoal]

I wouldn't dare combining the two like you.

[veerus]

I've used the two together based on the following reasoning - I want them to press in defense but if they recover the ball then TRY to counter if possible instead of always building up slowly. 

[BatiGoal]

24 minutes ago, veerus said:

I've used the two together based on the following reasoning - I want them to press in defense but if they recover the ball then TRY to counter if possible instead of always building up slowly. 

I can't say it won't work because I've never put it to the test to be frank but I don't see how it could work.

'Pressing' in my idea means closing down the opponent (usually near their goal) and disrupt their link to midfield so they can't build up. Once they lose possession of the ball it's no surprise (counter) attack anymore. Besides. distance to goal isn't ideal anymore for pacy forward to strike opposed to playing defensive to create more space for counters.

[rseven]

When you check AI's tactics, you will see this combine often.

[BatiGoal]

20 minutes ago, rseven said:

When you check AI's tactics, you will see this combine often.

I think AI consists of every type of manager in order to present us (the players) all sorts of different scenarios and problems.

This is probablythe inexperienced one

[SaintPaul]

A counter attack can occur wherever your team wins possession , so mixing the two means (in theory ) that your team will get the ball back and go straight on the attack , rather than passing the ball around and building slowly . You'd need players with high stamina and teamwork just to implement the basics of those tactics 

[BatiGoal]

1 hour ago, SaintPaul said:

A counter attack can occur wherever your team wins possession , so mixing the two means (in theory ) that your team will get the ball back and go straight on the attack , rather than passing the ball around and building slowly . You'd need players with high stamina and teamwork just to implement the basics of those tactics 

Disagree with the first part and agree with the second.

The reason I don't think it works is because 'pressing' occurs in opponent's half and 'counter attacks' start at your own half.

Maybe we disagree on the interpretation of it all.

We need someone to put it to the test. Volunteers?

[veerus]

3 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

The reason I don't think it works is because 'pressing' occurs in opponent's half and 'counter attacks' start at your own half.

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.  They can press as you describe but it won't always work so if they recover the ball while under siege in the box in their own half, they can try to start a counter attack, if possible, instead of slowly building up an attack.

Based on my experience of combining these two instructions in FM16 is that if you have a pacey poacher, in an even game, you can get a couple decent counterattacking chances per match.

[SaintPaul]

25 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Disagree with the first part and agree with the second.

The reason I don't think it works is because 'pressing' occurs in opponent's half and 'counter attacks' start at your own half.

Maybe we disagree on the interpretation of it all.

We need someone to put it to the test. Volunteers?

Counter attacks can start as far up as midfield. Dortmund, Chile and Sevilla have used the pressing /counter attacking tactic incredibly well in recent years. 

Counter attacking doesn't mean being ultra defensive and waiting for your opponents to lose the ball, it's going straight on the attack as soon as you win it, which Is why a counter can take place all over the field 

[Dar J]

54 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Disagree with the first part and agree with the second.

The reason I don't think it works is because 'pressing' occurs in opponent's half and 'counter attacks' start at your own half.

Maybe we disagree on the interpretation of it all.

We need someone to put it to the test. Volunteers?

SI's definition of counter attack in their manual

[nick2528]

ive never had good results with the two. If you have fast defencers with a high "decisions" rating you can combine pressing and offside trap to good effect! but thats it imo

[BatiGoal]

@SaintPaul

I understand your point but counter att from midfield aren't as deadly as those from a little deeper IMO.

@nick2528

Same here. Pressing and offside trap work well together as it enables the team to move upfield as a whole and therefore not give away any space to the opponent when it's under pressure. That's how you force opponents to make mistakes, as there's fewer passing options, and re-take possession.

In the end, as long as the results are there to show for, to each their own of course.

[rseven]

 What is the definition of "Counter Attack" is not clear in FMM. In one of the football game I played, if I turn on "Counter Attack", the front players such as FC, AMC, AMRL, will not go back when team is in defense. They will roam at half field, waiting the opportunity for counter attack. In FMM, only from the explanation in game manual is not clear. The key word is "deep" +"direct", which make us confusing with the mentality and pass style.

[Ed]

I have played a few games trying this out and it seems to work (despite me thinking it was a contradiction)!

I want a symmetric tactic so have setup:

GK, DR, DC, DC, DL, BBM, DLP, BBM, Wng, Treq, Wng

I play Balanced, Shorter Passing, Through the Middle which I know sounds strange as I play with wingers but what I am seeing is that playing through the middle with my DLP seems to suck in the opposition and leave the wide men with loads of space, so we have loads of play down the wings in the final third, it seems the initial play is through the middle but mixed further down the pitch.

Playing with counter when I am not the favourite for the game works well but not when I am the better team, adding pressing alongside counter works really well in those games.  In pre-season as Newcastle I beat Man U away 1 - 0 and drew with Man City 1 - 1 then in the league I lost the first game away but won the next 8 in a row.

If I am struggling to create / score I change one of the Wng to an IF and the full back behind him to a WBK which adds more attacking threat.

Only thing is I would prefer not to play with a Treq as its reduces my attacking threat, but my BBMs are scoring plenty...  I have tried Poacher & Target Man but neither work as well as the Treq.

[VizDesign]

On 11/26/2016 at 12:33, BatiGoal said:

Disagree with the first part and agree with the second.

The reason I don't think it works is because 'pressing' occurs in opponent's half and 'counter attacks' start at your own half.

Maybe we disagree on the interpretation of it all.

We need someone to put it to the test. Volunteers?

I use press and counter to mimic the gegenpress: press and then immediate passes to look for a quick goal.  It works really well for Spurs in the game.

[Scratch]

Hmm, I posted here about 12 hours ago, linking to an old post on gegenpressing , but it was removed. It was definitely live and my avatar showed up as latest poster in the FMM 2017 list. Not sure what happened - I had three posts removed in total, hope it's just a glitch and I didn't do anything against the rules or anything. Apologies if I did!

 

[Harish]

Actually the both can't work theoretically but quite a number of  popular teams use it like dortmund, Liverpool etc.

 It is pretty hard to explain about it but there is a post about gegenpressing  somewhere around here. It explains it pretty well, but the general idea is your team continously presses the opponents and after gaining possession move it faster to the striker, This cycle gets repeated over and over again in a fluid style. i.e. The whole team contributes to all phases of play.

So it does work. 

[BatiGoal]

On 29/11/2559 at 00:24, VizDesign said:

I use press and counter to mimic the gegenpress: press and then immediate passes to look for a quick goal.  It works really well for Spurs in the game.

Thanks for testing it out.

I need to try it myself too tho. I can't dispute anything that works of course, it's a simple as that.

This gegenpress would actually be my interpretation of pressing + attack mentality, which I use very often together.

I see no difference to be honest. As soon as the team regains possession it goes straight to the opponents goal.

Did you guys use pressing + counter + attack ment.? Gotta test this odd combo out sooner or later.

[Dar J]

10 minutes ago, BatiGoal said:

Thanks for testing it out.

I need to try it myself too tho. I can't dispute anything that works of course, it's a simple as that.

This gegenpress would actually be my interpretation of pressing + attack mentality, which I use very often together.

I see no difference to be honest. As soon as the team regains possession it goes straight to the opponents goal.

Did you guys use pressing + counter + attack ment.? Gotta test this odd combo out sooner or later.

For pressing and counter to work very very well I used attacking mentality, offside trap for obvious reasons then pressing and counter attack. 

It works well but if your defence is not strong enough you would concede many especially when you play against better teams  (maybe I should have used a SK)

[VizDesign]

On 11/29/2016 at 12:53, BatiGoal said:

Thanks for testing it out.

I need to try it myself too tho. I can't dispute anything that works of course, it's a simple as that.

This gegenpress would actually be my interpretation of pressing + attack mentality, which I use very often together.

I see no difference to be honest. As soon as the team regains possession it goes straight to the opponents goal.

Did you guys use pressing + counter + attack ment.? Gotta test this odd combo out sooner or later.

When I run 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 I run attacking.  

When I run 4-4-2-attacking I run balanced.  I feel like having only two midfielders and 2 attacking wingers, I'm begging to get overrun, so I try to at least pretend to not just pin my ears back for goals.