Chat Don't trust the tactics page of opponent team

[rseven]

Hi mate,

Is there anyone have same concern?

Sometime, I will check the tactics page of opponent team during the match. I always found the opponent players behavior is quite different with the role shown on tactics page.

Example One

AI team play 442, the two FCs have same role. But their behaviors are quite different. One FC will go back when team is in defense, another FC will keep in front.

Example Two

AI team play  442. Two wide players are both "W". But in highlight, these two "W" go to box often, player as "IF".

(Another question, I never found AI team play IF role in their tactics.)

I know the AI's team is playing in deferent way. @Marc Vaughanconfirmed AI's team using PSP way for tactics, means "team instruction" + "player instruction" + Arrow for movement.

My question is if like this, is it valuable to shown us the tactics page of AI team? 

Ending words, I would be very happy to use PSP way for design tactics instead of current role system.

 

 

[billy2shots]

Is that right @rseven, does the AI use the more detailed PSP tactics and has that definitely been confirmed? 

That worries the hell out of me if true. 

[rseven]

42 minutes ago, billy2shots said:

Is that right @rseven, does the AI use the more detailed PSP tactics and has that definitely been confirmed? 

That worries the hell out of me if true. 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/342729-first-opposition-shot/#comment-10245444

 

[PriZe]

FFS if it is there then give us the ability to set it up like psp. Way more enjoyable imo

[Jack Joyce]

You've misunderstood what he said. "The AI uses exactly the same roles which you have available when setting up their tactics, there is no difference at all between what the AI can do and yourself". This is pretty clear.

'Under the hood' the sliders are there, but that's what the roles change e.g. Box-to-box has a 'forward arrow' and sliders in a certain way. The AI can only use the roles you can though, there's no difference.

It's very unlikely we'll ever bring sliders back, but very likely that we will be adding more roles/tactical options to give you more control.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Jack Joyce

[rseven]

11 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

You've misunderstood what he said. "The AI uses exactly the same roles which you have available when setting up their tactics, there is no difference at all between what the AI can do and yourself". This is pretty clear.

'Under the hood' the sliders are there, but that's what the roles change e.g. Box-to-box has a 'forward arrow' and sliders in a certain way. The AI can only use the roles you can though, there's no difference.

It's very unlikely we'll ever bring sliders back, but very likely that we will be adding more roles/tactical options to give you more control.

Haha...

Shall I prepare video to prove you are cheating?

[Jack Joyce]

2 minutes ago, rseven said:

Haha...

Shall I prepare video to prove you are cheating?

Go ahead, I can see the code and know for a fact it doesn't. Any evidence of potential issues i'd be glad to look at.

This doesn't change the fact that you've twisted Marcs words here, he hasn't said not to trust the tactics page. He said the opposite.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Jack Joyce

[rseven]

6 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Go ahead, I can see the code and know for a fact it doesn't.

This doesn't change the fact that you've twisted Marcs words here, he hasn't said not to trust the tactics page. He said the opposite.

Good. You know the codes whixh nring us so little bugs.

Maybe I misunderstand the words Marc said,but I believe what I saw.

Edited December 1, 2016 by rseven

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, rseven said:

Good. You know the codes whixh nring us so little bugs.

Maybe I misunderstand the words Marc said,but I believe what I saw.

As I said, any evidence of issues with the ME i'm more than happy to look at. Examples would be very helpful. But regardless of any issues in the ME, the AI still only uses the roles that you have. You could use the exact same tactical setup and have the same behaviour.

[Ashez]

@rsevenDo you have the PSP type role settings? Would be good to post in a different thread so we can see what the roles actually do. 

As for the rest of this you all know my views on the current tactics engine so no need to go there. Disappointing to confirm everything we want is there just hidden though. Vibe asked the PSP setting question and got brushed aside while SI forums confesses all haha.

If those PSP type settings are edited in the folder will they be edited in the match engine? So could android users have the PSP type settings by fiddling with the preset sliders? Say if they go in the ISF folder/setting could they turn off long shots or whatever else?

[rseven]

@Jack Joyce

Example 1

Corner kick

When I play against Swansea. Swansea play 451. In their corner kicks, I saw at least four sets of playplan. But human player can only have one fixed playplan 

[Jack Joyce]

From those screenshots it looks like all but 1 of the players are in the same place each time? 4 at far post, 3 left back, 1 near post and 1 guy is in a different place each time, presumeably because he's just set to be 'forward'. Should be exactly the same for you if you use the same tactic with the same corner taker (whatever position Sigurdsson is playing, have them take the corner for you).

[rseven]

Example 2

A. Bilbao change their formation to 4231, with 3 IFs. When A.Bilbao attack with ball, see their 3 IFs's position.

 And see when I use same formation with same role, where is my 3 IFs?

[Jack Joyce]

We'd need to look at PKMs for this, screenshots aren't very helpful. You can send them to help@sega.co.uk with timestamps for each issue if you think there's a genuine issue.

[rseven]

6 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

From those screenshots it looks like all but 1 of the players are in the same place each time? 4 at far post, 3 left back, 1 near post and 1 guy is in a different place each time, presumeably because he's just set to be 'forward'. Should be exactly the same for you if you use the same tactic with the same corner taker (whatever position Sigurdsson is playing, have them take the corner for you).

Good. You used "forward" "nera post" and "far post" which are player instructions in psp version and not availabe in current version of fmm. 

Tell me how to set this in current role based engine.

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, rseven said:

Good. You used "forward" "nera post" and "far post" which are player instructions in psp version and not availabe in current version of fmm. 

Tell me how to set this in current role based engine.

It's just a default, the same you would have if you use the same formation and corner taker. The system doesnt change at all from what i can see in your 4 screenshots.

[rseven]

1 minute ago, Jack Joyce said:

It's just a default, the same you would have if you use the same formation and corner taker. The system doesnt change at all from what i can see in your 4 screenshots.

do you have your phone with the game in hand?

Please tell me how to set corner kick like pic 3 in my post. I mean 2 in far post. I am waiting your screenshots.

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, rseven said:

do you have your phone with the game in hand?

Please tell me how to set corner kick like pic 3 in my post. I mean 2 in far post. I am waiting your screenshots.

I've already said twice how to get the same corner setup. If you're not willing to listen there's no point discussing this further unless you have any actual evidence of any problems.

[rseven]

4 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

I've already said twice how to get the same corner setup. If you're not willing to listen there's no point discussing this further unless you have any actual evidence of any problems.

I am listening. Forgive me my bad english. I can not get your "how". please tell me how more clear. Step by step. Then I can design more corner kick play.

Thanks.

 

[Jack Joyce]

15 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

It's just a default, the same you would have if you use the same formation and corner taker. The system doesnt change at all from what i can see in your 4 screenshots.

25 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Should be exactly the same for you if you use the same tactic with the same corner taker (whatever position Sigurdsson is playing, have them take the corner for you).

Edited December 1, 2016 by Jack Joyce

[rseven]

8 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

 

Have you played game more than one hour?

What I got from my time spent on fmm is below.

1. You have one strike. The strike will be attack near post. The others will be in box excep 2-3 leave behind. No one will attack far post.

2. You have two strikes. One of striker will at near post, the other striker will be at far post. 

3. You have three strikes. One at near post, one at far post and one attacking near post.

I tried a lot to find the way to set my corner kick as same as AI can, but I never found I can do same play as AI did.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by rseven

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, rseven said:

Have you played game more than one hour?

What I got from my time spent on fmm is below.

1. You have one strike. The strike will be attack near post. The others will be in box excep 2-3 leave behind. No one will attack far post.

2. You have two strikes. One of striker will at near post, the other striker will be at far post. 

3. You have three strikes. One at near post, one at far post and one attacking near post.

I never found I have same play as AI did.

 

I've played the game for thousands of hours, thanks. As I said before, use the same formation and corner taker and it'll be the same.

[rseven]

2 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

I've played the game for thousands of hours, thanks. As I said before, use the same formation and corner taker and it'll be the same.

Could you spent some minutes let me learn how to do it? The same formation you meaning is 451? Shall I post what I try later?

[billy2shots]

10 minutes ago, rseven said:

Could you spent some minutes let me learn how to do it? The same formation you meaning is 451? Shall I post what I try later?

Easiest way is to try it at Swansea mate mirroring the tactic and set piece taker as Jack says. 

[veerus]

Those 4 corner screenshots look nearly identical. The 4 attackers are on the far post with the other 2 leaning toward the near post. I don't understand what you're seeing that's different...

[Ashez]

This system is flawed however you look at it if the way you handle set pieces is relating to your formation. One of my main ones is awful at defending set pieces, I thought the game was just cheap in that regard but nope my perfect formation otherwise is flawed and restricted in ways I can't control. It's always bothered me we have no set piece input, it's the cheapest way for the AI to score IMO, granted it goes both ways as I'll also score some but it still irritates me. 

Scoring from corners, throw ins and free kicks is a way to play football and win matches yet we can't do anything to take advantage of these situations. 

[rseven]

6 minutes ago, veerus said:

Those 4 corner screenshots look nearly identical. The 4 attackers are on the far post with the other 2 leaning toward the near post. I don't understand what you're seeing that's different...

The question is whether you can do same as AI did.

 

[Fish18ish]

Have you guys found it extremely difficult to score from corners with centre backs on this game compared to the last one?

[PriZe]

Sorry for budging in, but i feel some message come over hostile against SI. I'm not trying to kiss butt. I think its not a secret that im not the biggest fan of the ME to say the least. But lets try and keep it a bit less hostile. @Jack Joyce is willing too listen. It isn't often game developers are willing to interact with the community as the lads have done so far. Its their choice to do so, so lets not push them away

[Dar J]

1 hour ago, Fish18ish said:

Have you guys found it extremely difficult to score from corners with centre backs on this game compared to the last one?

I've always found it difficult to score from corners with my center backs including this year's game