Series Ashez Gives His Views On 2015 And The Series Progression.

[Ashez]

Very good points mate, the game is dying unless we stop it. I wanted to post this once the gimmick of the new ME wore off (which I knew it would) but I decided to do it while the anger and disappointment was fresh and I'm glad I did as the gimmicks seems to be wearing off quicker than I expected!

[leecutler]

Im glad people share the same views, we as "fans" need to take action and say please dont destroy the game we all love, I honestly hope some one from SI is reading this thread and thinking about what what we are saying.

[Ashez]

We'll prob get screwed and thrown a new game "FMHlite" lol, but hopefully someone is paying attention and seeing that the loyal fans aren't happy!

[Carlos Barreira]

I agree with ashez points. What it drives me crazy is one match can take almost 15 minutes in fast speed... Unbelieavable. This is fmh. The H means handheld,means quick play.

[Ashez]

Well said Carlos

[Lee-Roy]

Yes the mantra of FMH has always been pick up and play, but in no way does the word handheld instantly mean quick play.

Play a JRPG on a handheld device and you'll see where you're going wrong.

[Ashez]

Trust you to pick that up, I was hoping that would be overlooked lol. It's true though some handheld games can take a time to get through, but they have a lot more to them than FMH .

[Lee-Roy]

I'll never dispute that FMH should always be pick up and play (except for the first window of every save that's always a long'un) but the whole idea of handheld = fast gaming is rubbish. You'd go mad if the latest pokemon was barebones simple gameplay right?

[Ashez]

I do agree with you, I just hoped that no one picked up on the way Carlos worded it . Handheld doesn't mean pick up and play at all, as a Nintendo lover I know that more than most as their handhelds have some of the best and deepest games available, I'd love FMH on the 3ds if it could take screenshots and if it was better than the current version haha. Nintendo have/or published (not sure top of my head) a few RPG/Sim footy games like Nintendo Pocket Football and the Inazuma Eleven series but I haven't tried either, anyway we're getting off topic

FMH should be pick up and play and that's the point

[Toney]

I agree with Ash on most of what he says, but I don't think there's a problem for both of these approaches to FM to coexist under the same game, as long as one isn't a detriment to the other.

 

If they can make the new engine work fast enough without the highlights on, for the people that just wanna get through quick, and make it so the statistics actually tell you what is working fine and what needs to be adjusted (like the old engine did), then that would be ideal, fundamentally speaking.

 

Personally, I started playing FMH in 2010, and have come from FM PC so I actually like to see what's going on, HOWEVER, I miss the old engine because it felt more realistic in terms of stats, and the new one less realistic in other aspects (like player behavior, ratings and roles).

 

All in all, my excitement has been turning more and more into disappointment. For everyone that's not on a high end device, this is nothing than a 10 dollars transfer update. Those of us that do have a high end device are at a crossroads: do we want a fresh new engine or do we want a somewhat more realistic tactical approach?

 

And don't tell me that this game is harder, therefor more realistic, because it's really not. I finished a season last night, and I never steamrolled this easily on my first season, and all I do was take my old 4-1-2-2-1 and replace the DMC with a 2nd striker. The AI teams have been equalized among themselves, so leagues are pretty irrelevant unless you pick the worst of the worst of teams.

 

I expect it to get better over time, but it feels like, as with FM PC, we're paying to be beta testers. That's what ultimately drove me away from FM PC and it's what will likely make this my last FMH.

[Ashez]

While that could work it could causes problems with what people want from the engine. As I said I want to be able to have fun with goals and play challenges and if that's possible on the NE won't the NE lovers be annoyed?

The beta tester point is true and disappointing tbh

Thanks for your input.

[Toney]

While that could work it could causes problems with what people want from the engine. As I said I want to be able to have fun with goals and play challenges and if that's possible on the NE won't the NE lovers be annoyed?

 

Well, everyone is in their own right to want whatever they want out of the game, and to be honest, I don't think those options are mutually exclusive.

 

Personally, I rather it be realistic, but that doesn't make it the RIGHT call. Do I think it's realistic for Watford to beat Real Madrid 5-0? No. Do I think it's realistic for Real Madrid to beat Watford 5-0? Yes. It's all relative. I enjoy seeing my lone strike score hat trick after hat trick as much as anyone else, but, to me, that gets old quick.

 

I don't care as much about how many goals I score as I do about my team playing in the way I want it to play, and my player's behavior be coherent in relation to the tactic and the role they play in. Every time I see my INFs run all across the pitch just to cross to my 9 aerial Treq (who wins 1 out of every 10 heading attempts), instead of cutting inside and trying a through ball, I die a little inside,

 

Sadly, the old engine feels way more realistic in terms of functionality, but on the other hand, I LOVE to see the game in real time. For me, it's breathed a lot of life into the game. I could live with the old engine if they made the highlights to be an accurate representation of what's actually happening (that's not gonna happen, I'm just saying the whole arcade feel could coexist with a greater degree of realism).

[Ashez]

Fair points and i understand them, the right balance is important. I understand but disagree with the realism debate yet i see why people don't like goal heavy strikers but i see why people do.

The most important thing for me is challenges remain possible as the challenges are the reason im here and what i find fun, however the game also needs to keep players like yourself happy

This is why they never should have attempted to branch out as they've got themselves trapped between different fans and now one set will be unhappy.

[Carlos Barreira]

I like the new match engine, But is toooo slow. This version of the game is still with many bugs ( Main one is the lollipop ). Also miss many cool things: more media interact and more options for transfers,loans,etc. But if they can solve the lollipop bug and i can play one match in 3 minutes in my nexus4, im OK with it.

[scass]

While that could work it could causes problems with what people want from the engine. As I said I want to be able to have fun with goals and play challenges and if that's possible on the NE won't the NE lovers be annoyed?

The beta tester point is true and disappointing tbh

Thanks for your input.

I don't particularly care about challenges or millions of goals, but I see your point, and it's gone too far the other way.  I don't want to spend every game, even against lowly opposition, one goal up and waiting for them to score an unlikely equaliser.

 

While that could work it could causes problems with what people want from the engine. As I said I want to be able to have fun with goals and play challenges and if that's possible on the NE won't the NE lovers be annoyed?

 

Well, everyone is in their own right to want whatever they want out of the game, and to be honest, I don't think those options are mutually exclusive.

 

Personally, I rather it be realistic, but that doesn't make it the RIGHT call. Do I think it's realistic for Watford to beat Real Madrid 5-0? No. Do I think it's realistic for Real Madrid to beat Watford 5-0? Yes. It's all relative. I enjoy seeing my lone strike score hat trick after hat trick as much as anyone else, but, to me, that gets old quick.

 

I don't care as much about how many goals I score as I do about my team playing in the way I want it to play, and my player's behavior be coherent in relation to the tactic and the role they play in. Every time I see my INFs run all across the pitch just to cross to my 9 aerial Treq (who wins 1 out of every 10 heading attempts), instead of cutting inside and trying a through ball, I die a little inside,

 

Sadly, the old engine feels way more realistic in terms of functionality, but on the other hand, I LOVE to see the game in real time. For me, it's breathed a lot of life into the game. I could live with the old engine if they made the highlights to be an accurate representation of what's actually happening (that's not gonna happen, I'm just saying the whole arcade feel could coexist with a greater degree of realism).

 

Dead right about the INF.  They just play like wingers. And the Trequartista is just wrong.  The one place they don't tend to play is as the spearhead of an attack.  Zidane, Totti, Baggio, del Piero - none of them played at the apex of the attack.

[Marc Vaughan]

Its not our intention to alienate people and we aren't trying to become full-fat FM at all.

 

However one of the most complained about issues with prior FMH versions was the 2d representation which was something we worked hard on for FMH2015 - we knew this would slow the match down for fairly obvious reasons (i.e. it vastly increased the processing required) and that initially it'd be 'touch and go' on some devices as to whether they could handle it.

 

This is the reason we have retained the previous match engine as an option for people who have devices which are significantly slower using the new engine.

We hope to improve the speed of the new match in forth-coming updates, however we will also be retaining the old match engine in future releases until we are 100% confident that everyone has devices capable of running the new match at a brisk pace.

[Lee-Roy]

That's the sort of thing we'd like to have heard about pre-release.

Yes, details of a new match engine were mentioned, but nobody said that if your device wasn't top notch then you'll be using the old engine and playing pretty much the same game as last year. Maybe it's a coincidence that this all came to light after we'd bought and paid for the game, but I personally feel cheated.

If someone had said before the game was available to purchase that there's a possibility that I'd have to choose between painstakingly long matches, and playing 99% the same game as last year, I'd have had the opportunity to consider my purchase.

Instead we get no info until a few days before release, and that info only hyped the new ME, leaving us to think we're paying £6.99 for an app that has a new engine we'll all have access to.

Please don't view that as a personal attack, it's not intended by any means.

[Ashez]

I've just seen you say you loved the PSP game as did myself, however for the last few years FMH has lost what made those games fun in the first place. The PSP game was fast paced, in depth and most importantly fun while this new version is slow, boring, frustrating and bugged to high heaven.

I see what you're saying and I see why those decisions were made but you have ended up alienating a group of fans who like playing the challenges on Vibe. Granted that number isn't as big as those who want more realism from the game but just look how much content and advertising we do for you, the careers thread here is alive due to challenges and being able to have fun with the game. I've always felt you wanted to break some challenges, especially the goal relating ones but it's what a lot of fans like about the game. As I've said in this thread though there are more issues with the game than the slow match engine but everyone is ignoring those points as the ME is the key talking point.

Basically I'm in danger of repeating myself for the one millionth time and I've had my say throughout this thread with support from the community.

Then to top it off you've confirmed the games death as this new engine will be the future of the series, so unless the game is also changed to be fun and to have challenges possible again like it's glory days in previous years I may as well give up now. I love this game to bits but the more I think about it the more I realise the challenge community has out grown the game and it will get to the point where some people have nothing left, genuinely upset tbh as this game has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember as has Vibe.

This is in no way meant to be harsh and it's just my opinion but I appreciate you leaving a comment as I never expected you to, as I said it's nothing personal.

Well said Leroy, loyal fans who want to support the series on day one get kicked in the teeth with a game they didn't want and to have the ability to be SIs personal bug testers, a joke to say the least.

[leecutler]

Yes we all wanted a better match engine but there was alot more that the fans wanted, did we get them no we didnt, I Hate the concept of playing a game on the enhanced engine where it takes 10+ minutes to play a single game, surely we should have been told about these things as we are the ones the support the makers by buying the game year on year, im so annoyed that we are essentially bug testers (like Lee-Roy said),I honestly feel like I have been ripped off with this game, this is my views nothing personal.

[Ashez]

I'd love to see the tally chart of what fans wanted tbh, as from my experience people wanted a logical engine that actually worked plus more leagues and the frustrations of 2014 to leave the game. Yes a new engine was requested but was it requested for this one? Some wanted a realistic one, some wanted one like we got and others wanted one that brought more fun to the game.

Tbh I'd have have took a reskin and 2014s engine working like it should over what we got, as now even the fans who want to use the old engine struggle to enjoy the game as it's rigged and not fun. I've picked my iPod up loads of times in the last few days with the intention of loading the game but I never do . This has nothing to do with the engine, it's done to the fact the games frustratingly painful to play and so rigged it's boring, the lack of a new league also plays it's part as these teams feel old!

New features doesn't make managing Madrid feel different to any other year apart from an update, the only real way to offer new experiences is to add new leagues and that's surely the most requested thing in the last few years, even on the new engine if you manage Madrid it's not new!

[leecutler]

I'd love to see the tally chart of what fans wanted tbh, as from my experience people wanted a logical engine that actually worked plus more leagues and the frustrations of 2014 to leave the game. Yes a new engine was requested but was it requested for this one? Some wanted a realistic one, some wanted one like we got and others wanted one that brought more fun to the game.

Tbh I'd have have took a reskin and 2014s engine working like it should over what we got, as now even the fans who want to use the old engine struggle to enjoy the game as it's rigged and not fun. I've picked my iPod up loads of times in the last few days with the intention of loading the game but I never do . This has nothing to do with the engine, it's done to the fact the games frustratingly painful to play and so rigged it's boring, the lack of a new league also plays it's part as these teams feel old!

New features doesn't make managing Madrid feel different to any other year apart from an update, the only real way to offer new experiences is to add new leagues and that's surely the most requested thing in the last few years, even on the new engine if you manage Madrid it's not new!

New leagues would have been awesome like I would love a licensed Argentina League, I think because they see that Jay creates a Pre Editor that allows us to create leagues they think,"well they can create them themselves so lets just leave the leagues as they are".

[Ashez]

Na I don't believe that, I'm sure they want as many official leagues as possible. If I speculated I'd guess they couldn't get any or the money went else where, like on the new engine.

[Toney]

Well, the thing about licenses is that some are just not available. Germany for example. EA might have the license for Argentina. IDK, but since 2014 both FIFA and Pro Evolution Soccer started featuring it.

 

In any way, like Ash said, it's either a money or availability issue for sure.

[UKFootballScore]

'Granted that number isn't as big as those who want more realism from the game but just look how much content and advertising we do for you'

At the end of the day they will always go with the majority which is right as it will potentially make more money getting FM players interested which they just weren't until this new ME

I think we need to respect that they will not be forcing this engine on us until 100% sure everyone can run it at a good standard

Also regarding vibes challenges etc… we need to evolve with the game granted those challenges that will be very hard now and nigh on impossible are great ones but new ones will appear soon enough we'll have new ideas that will be even better! Lets get behind this game

I do agree with most of all your points and the careers and challenges is defo one of the main attractions to FMH rather than FM but we cant expect SI to continue with that style when they can go more realistic as that will be the goal to make the game as close to real life as possible whether that's right or not is a whole new debate but imo it should be kept as it is a GAME not a simulation

[Lee-Roy]

'Granted that number isn't as big as those who want more realism from the game but just look how much content and advertising we do for you'

At the end of the day they will always go with the majority which is right as it will potentially make more money getting FM players interested which they just weren't until this new ME

I think we need to respect that they will not be forcing this engine on us until 100% sure everyone can run it at a good standard

Also regarding vibes challenges etc… we need to evolve with the game granted those challenges that will be very hard now and nigh on impossible are great ones but new ones will appear soon enough we'll have new ideas that will be even better! Lets get behind this game

I do agree with most of all your points and the careers and challenges is defo one of the main attractions to FMH rather than FM but we cant expect SI to continue with that style when they can go more realistic as that will be the goal to make the game as close to real life as possible whether that's right or not is a whole new debate but imo it should be kept as it is a GAME not a simulation

Did you not read the argument I made, or do you have nothing to say about it? You carry on sticking up for them, while they laugh at how the convinced us to buy a broken game, and find it even funnier that nobody has noticed how they've been conned

[scass]

This argument makes me want to stop coming to this forum.  

[anfieldsquirrel]

This argument makes me want to stop coming to this forum.

They are having a discussion about their contrasting views, which happens on any forum and it gets their views out there for people to agree/disagree with. If that makes you want to leave a forum then I advise you don't sign up to any forum.

[scass]

 

This argument makes me want to stop coming to this forum.

They are having a discussion about their contrasting views, which happens on any forum and it gets their views out there for people to agree/disagree with. If that makes you want to leave a forum then I advise you don't sign up to any forum.

 

See? That's what I'm talking about.  So far, SI have been blamed for people's phones not being up to their new match engine; for trying to respond to people who wanted more realism; for getting in the way of people who want 1000 goal challenges and being able to play a season in two hours; UKFootballscore has been accused of "self-promotion" on another thread, and now he's been accused of "sticking up for them, when they're "laughing at us."  I don't think that's a discussion on contrasting views, I think that's aggressive.  

 

Don't get me wrong - I've enjoyed Ashez and Lee-Roy's views in the past. This isn't personal. But I think everybody needs to get a grip.  I've flip flopped: I started out thinking the ME looked better, got frustrated, and now that I'm into it and have a team playing the way I like, I'm appreciating that I had to think about it.  That I had to try to identify what was wrong with how I was putting out a team, who was interfering with team spirit blah blah.

 

When I say something obliquely - that it's getting a bit personal - I'm told I shouldn't go on any forums.  Get over yourself.

 

 

It would be more interesting to have a discussion on the game, not on how we're all being ripped off, on how SI are to blame for people's phones, or on how anyone who disagrees is "sticking up for them."

[Ashez]

Lads, I know this is a heated discussion for obvious reasons but please let's not turn on each other! If I have to lock this due to people being immature I won't be happy! Marc's response was a typical PR one which danced around everything and answered nothing, that shouldn't change your views! Yes I feel harsh and pretty horrible for this thread, especially as he as responded but this is nothing personal.

@Toney: Well said

@UK: so us loyal fans get kicked in the teeth? Granted they'll follow money but that's harsh on us.

The second point is redundant by the fact they released it now when a small margin of users can use it. How on earth can they decide when everyone has a device capable? That's just talking rubbish tbh.

Again another pointless point, "let's make it realistic, and the key feature will be an editor that let's you change things". How can they want it realistic yet give us things like myclub and the editor which break that image? Not to mention we are still missing important things like set piece tactics! It's because they can sell the game with these items that break the real life illusion yet what we want isn't realistic and it's been broken every year, double standards.

@Leroy: well said tbh, I complete back the argument you've put forward and it's a shame that people are commenting while not reading everything or while still sitting on the fence, I've noticed some people's views change per post they've made, trying to keep everyone happy?

Sass: why shouldn't SI get the blame? How is it anyone else's fault that they released a game that most people can't play? So all this is my fault as my iPod is a few years old? All this is my fault as I don't want to upgrade my phone? No the engine was released too early and it's split the community done the middle. When all someone does is talking YouTube or link to YouTube I feel that is self promotion regardless if it is the Vibe channel. So SI aren't happy that they've had our money before any of the problems have came to light? Cause they are, they'd be gutted if this info was out before had and people didn't buy it due to the bugs or the ability not to be able to play it? They've already made a big chunk of their money already and for the fans who supported them at release and are now unhappy can do nothing about it.

What your not understanding is this is a very personal argument for members like myself, Leroy and AS, not only have we enjoyed previous games and supported them but we've also spent the last few years of our life devoted to Vibe and supporting the community that way. Now we're struggling to find a reason to play and also feel frustrated and hurt about the new game it effects how we are on Vibe, for example I spent hours hyping the new game with content and now I feel disappointed. I had ideas lined up for after the games release and tbh I don't want to work/promote the game at this moment in time, I'm sure I will but it'll be for Vibe and not for FMH.

Anyway as I said please do not bring unrelating arguments here and especially personal ones as if we bicker among ourselves we'll just look stupid. Vibe is a great community and it deserves better!

[Marc Vaughan]

That's the sort of thing we'd like to have heard about pre-release.

Yes, details of a new match engine were mentioned, but nobody said that if your device wasn't top notch then you'll be using the old engine and playing pretty much the same game as last year. Maybe it's a coincidence that this all came to light after we'd bought and paid for the game, but I personally feel cheated.

Please don't view that as a personal attack, it's not intended by any means.